2006-01-15 [Paz]: In the area of uploading short films, I think they should be able to have 45sec-1 minute or else it will be too short for anyone to enjoy. Also, maybe a priv could be arrange to allow some members upload longer clips

2006-01-15 [Tyrana]: That sounds reasonable. Maybe we can start off with something a little over a minute, though. Not a full-featured film length, of course, but maybe a few minutes at the least. It's sometimes hard to get anything artistically accomplished in under a minute.

2006-01-15 [Paz]: True, so we should change it to be maybe 2-5 minutes for the normal member and for the special privs maybe 10-15 minutes. How could these members get a priv like that though?

2006-01-16 [Tyrana]: That sounds good, methinks. Hmm... perhaps if they win some sort of a contest? Or is that too subjective? Maybe we could have some sort of a small judging panel (kinda like the e.g.g. thing here?) and people could submit their work... maybe it would even be okay to grant it to people who are just more serious about film. It's a hard call...

2006-01-16 [Paz]: Too subjective, the priv would work as a permenant thing, like the privs a guard/council member get here. We could go through and find those who really want to do it but some people might say they do to get the priv.

2006-01-16 [Paz]: It should definately be a must priv for a guard, and wiki boss. It could be attached to a special title

2006-01-16 [Tyrana]: That's true. It's hard to judge something like that. I don't know about attaching it to a title, though. Some of the guards and such might be there mostly to guard, or mostly to be a wiki boss, y'know? So maybe other people would have more of a use for the privs. I just can't think of a way to pick out the ones who could really use it.

2006-01-16 [Paz]: I mean't as in a standard priv. Saying once they have reached the level of their priv, it's default (like if you have a level 94 priv, you will always have the tech page turned on, no matter what) It's going to be hard to choose one, maybe it could along with a certain kind of donation?

2006-01-16 [iippo]: I think limit should be set on file-size (I'm sure there are ways to compress video to be able to still make it clear but not so humongous - reviews and recommendations on different programs could be a feature in the community). I assume the uploading would work like in Musmakers?

2006-01-16 [iippo]: Oh and non-privified members should be encouraged to talk to the people with the power if they have a longer film they can't get uploaed, since you can make privs go up and down, so you could give the priv for them to upload it, if they don't or abuse the right, then take it away.

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: hmm, all this talk about privs already ^^ look, from a semi-professional point of view I do have a lot of experience already with making small (animation) movies.. and yes there are tools to keep the size small and quality good, although that takes a lot of trial and error to find the right one.. to give you something of a guideline: most short films are between 2,5 to 6 minutes :)

2006-01-16 [iippo]: The worry is abuse. What if people just nip films off the web or DVDs and upload them at will? That's why the priv-talk is necessary. All the negative points need to be discussed, anticipate the problems.

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: well thats just the thing isnt it? if someone is willing t go through all that trouble to get some of the movies, then he will succeed eventually anyway.. but why start at the negative? for christs sake, you dont even have the community yet ^^

2006-01-16 [Paz]: We could have it like the 99 or the 94 level priv here and they have to request it from a higher power to get it. Then if they abuse the rules they get the priv taken away and banned from the site. Piracey is very easy this day in age and someone would go to the trouble of ripping off DVD's. There will be people who find the site and try to rip off already made movies, like the art thieves here, the guards just have to stay one step ahead of them

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: well, origional art does need origional security.. we could watermark all the movies.. just keep a small logo in view all the time, with the website.. its not very easy to just erase that..

2006-01-16 [Paz]: That would work and if some people even go as far to get TV shows, the channel will proivides its own mark. Should they be allowed to upload things like trailers for up-coming movies?

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: i dont think pirates will broadcast their things on tv; they like to stay away from the official circuits as far as possible.. and even then, the moment we notice something, we can jump in right? and uploading trailers isnt really necessary; we can just link to trailers on various other sites (like www.apple.com/trailers) (which also saves a lot of space for the community website ^^ )

2006-01-16 [iippo]: The thievery I'm worried is "Hey, this is a cool file I took from somewhere (DVD-rip, TV program), I want to share it with my friends! I upload it in *community name* because it's free." <_< And negative first because then the positive after it leaves a nice taste in your mouth. Just like you eat broccoli before the dessert. :P

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: i dont see any problem with that kind of file sharing actually.. i mean, as long as its not being claimed as self-made, its free publicity.. and frankly or not, everybody who makes movies, makes them to be shared with an audience.. if the movie itself is watermarked then i dont have any problems with somebody showing something "cool" or "awesome" to his friends or classmates..

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: In fact, thats how most people who are professionals today got their job; by having their work spread at the speed of light..

2006-01-16 [prowlie]: it's gonna be complicated...plus if you load up cool files you found somewhere, it'll waste space, linkage would be better :)

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: doesnt have to be complicated.. simplicity is bliss:)

2006-01-16 [prowlie]: well then let's try and keep it as simple as possible^^ let's get to the fun part! what do we call it! i vote filmpack!

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: make a poll out of it ^^ hmmmm (contemplates ^^ )

2006-01-16 [prowlie]: can't make a poll with one option! XD

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: thats true ^^ ill think about something ^^ lets see, the main feature is film.. so therefore its a nice idea to start with words linking to such a thing :) much like was done with "couch potatoes" in the past ^^

2006-01-16 [prowlie]: y'know... that makes me wonder why they went with potatoes? they aren't any less energetic than, say, carrots for example.. and then you'd have alliteration! couch carrots! maybe it just didnt catch on... and who are "they" anyway? o.O strange... XD

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: its from a magazine.. couch potatoes is a methaphore for people who sit on their couch all day, watching tv or movies, doing nothing but..

2006-01-16 [iippo]: Yeah but carrot would have made a nice 'zing' at the original term, while being original in itself.

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: i was merely giving an example to start thinking out of the box (as in words with film, movie, cinema, tv etc..)..

2006-01-16 [iippo]: Yeah. We just strayed. >.> I love the word 'talkie' :)

2006-01-16 [prowlie]: yeah i understand, i was just musing about how the phrase was thought up XD

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: okayy.... (has a short brain storming session) --> The Sticky Floor Society? ^^

2006-01-16 [prowlie]: um, how does that link to the main feature of the community? XD

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: movies --> cinema --> popcorn and soda drinks spills --> sticky floors ^^

2006-01-16 [prowlie]: XD awesome! hey, when we get this thing up and running, whoever thought up the winning name should get a badge on their house! [iippo], any ideas?:)

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: ooh another one ^^ Celluloid Addicts?

2006-01-16 [prowlie]: awesome! only... wouldn't it be better to be one word, like elftown, elfpack, elf12, musmakers, etc since it'll be in the URL?

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: hmm no i dont think that matters much.. i mean, whats wrong with www.celluloidaddicts.com ? and if it doesnt read or write nicely, you can just put a - between the words..

2006-01-16 [prowlie]: good point^^ there's me bring silly again XD gah! i can't think up any more names!

2006-01-16 [prowlie]: ooo! something else to think about... color scheme!

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: hmm, shouldnt you be determining what you want first? ^^

2006-01-16 [prowlie]: what i want? why does that matter?

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: well.. usually you work from content to design.. for example, if you have a my little pony website, logical colors to pick will be pink, purple etc.. but with movies its a little different, because it is a very wide topic.. you need to narrow it down a bit so you can hang a feeling to it, the way it will be represented?

2006-01-16 [prowlie]: it's very hard to narrow something like that down... i thought it would be kinda cool to have a filmstrip as the left margin image^^

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: hmm, there you go designing again ^^ not that there's anything wrong with that.. what kind of cimmunity should it become? serious? non-serious? what kind of people do you want in there? and why?

2006-01-16 [prowlie]: um, like musmakers... but with movies... you can upload your own.. i write it all up there! -points to the top of the wiki-page-

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: *nods* alright take your time..

2006-01-16 [prowlie]: bah, i gotta go, refuel my stomach.. but i'll think on it! i promise!

2006-01-16 [prowlie]: i have come to the conclusion that... all the ideas i've written up at the top of the page ("i am proposing...") are all my poor little brain can come up with for now, and considering YOU, [Trennas] are the 5th member, and are all animatey and talented, YOU should make some contribution too^^ if you want to be all high ranking and special privvy that is^^ XD kidding! but, cmon! i'm not the only one here!

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: hahaha i have no problems with contributing, but i would like to see what you come up with first ^^

2006-01-16 [prowlie]: well, me and [Paz] came up with all this stuff yesterday: "i am proposing to begin the building of a community like elftown but more towards the cinematic side of things. there could be areas focusing on the release of and rumours about upcoming films, there could be the possibility of uploading your own short films, so it would be like www.musmakers.com in that respect. so far it's quite a wooly concept, but ideas would be greatly appreciated for features, etc." is zat enough? YOUR TURN!

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: ive already read that since its on this page ^^ but i dont know jack s**t about musmakers for instance..

2006-01-16 [prowlie]: well, what would you put in it, speaking as an amateur short animation artist? XD

2006-01-16 [Paz]: I don't know anything about musmakers either :P I am no technology expert either (that's why I posted that we need Programmers). 

2006-01-16 [prowlie]: we could ask one of the magicians very politely...

2006-01-16 [Trennas]: what would i put in? hmm.. how about reviews and previews? and space for projects (say if some people want to work together on a movie)

2006-01-17 [Paz]: Colaborations should be arranged because many people work together to create films. Reviews and Previews are a must for cinema lovers, they would like to see what is coming :P Th magicians don't have the time, my suggestion is ask the council on Musmakers

2006-01-17 [prowlie]: and contests of course

2006-01-17 [prowlie]: animated or otherwise^^

2006-01-17 [Paz]: Contests are a must, it helps bring in the public :)

2006-01-17 [Faery]: check out [rhyswolfie], he might be interested...

2006-01-17 [prowlie]: ^^ will do

2006-01-18 [iippo]: I don't think any separation should be made between animation and live action films. They are both cinema, just slightly different methods. It's strange how animation has been pushed aside in society, made it seem like it is one genre of filmmaking, when in fact it is filmmaking and has same genres as live-action.

2006-01-18 [Trennas]: well, a seperation in quality.. no.. but a seperation in categories, yes.. animation does stand out amongst ways of filmmaking, for it has a very different workflow.. the goal is the same (to make a movie) but the way it is made is very very different.. so i do think it should deserve a special category (and that does make things easier to search :)

2006-01-18 [prowlie]: yeah, that's what i meant... like when they have contests on elftown, with a separate one for prose, etc. and then we could have a general contest that deals with both animation and live-action... shouldnt we be deciding stuff other than contests? like..i dunno, who's gonna do what? are we gonna have a council? if so, who'll be on it? we're kinda acting like a council at the moment... so i guess that's [Paz], [iippo], [Trennas], [Tyrana] and me.. so far anyway...

2006-01-18 [Catlover]: That's five people. With only 30-60 to start off with, I don't think you'll need any more... not at first, anyway.

2006-01-18 [prowlie]: really? you sure you don't wanna? i was just mentioning the people who've been discussing stuff n stuff, but i'm not barring anyone else! i'm not in charge anyway. who's gonna be in charge?

2006-01-18 [Catlover]: I'm on the council in CatHug, and there really isn't as much to do as you'd imagine. I mean, I'll help out if you want, but it might get a little crowded.

2006-01-18 [Trennas]: hmmm i have no idea what an effective member/council scale will be.. I think 5 members in the council against 60 members could work, but im not sure..

2006-01-18 [Paz]: No, we need a good amount of people to sign up because we'll be needing beta-testers (although 60 people might be effective). Usually the starter of the community is the head of all of it, but if you think someone would do better than you can have them as head. Yes, we're going to need and council and of course guards to keep the peace, write new and build up the community. If we have 60 members, 5 guards and maybe 5-8 council members that could work.

2006-01-18 [Trennas]: hmmm, youre right.. well that means we still need some people willing to do dutywork:)

2006-01-18 [Paz]: I'm sure there are a few people who will be up to doing it (dutywork?) ;)

2006-01-18 [prowlie]: well, i'd like to be in charge. i just didnt want to be getting ahead of myself or anything. i'll definitely be on the council though^^ and i wouldnt mind being a guard, too...

2006-01-18 [Paz]: If it's your idea then the odds are you're the one to run it, you can have a co-runner like they do at the rpg realm. Seeing as you're the head of it you can choose the positions and who is on the council, etc.

2006-01-18 [prowlie]: well, i vote [Paz] to be queen of the council!

2006-01-18 [prowlie]: i've made a stab at doing the council but we don't really have enough members yet to be choosing guards or anything yet...

2006-01-18 [nokaredes]: ...I would sign up, but my videos are really bad because I haven't got an editing program >_>

2006-01-18 [Paz]: I'm flattered, [prowlie] :P // Go ahead and sign up anyways, I don't even have a way to put videos on my computer (and I can't work the flash player >.>)

2006-01-18 [prowlie]: whooo! more and more members!

2006-01-18 [prowlie]: [Paz], would it be okay if you decide who should be on the council? and i'll do the guards ^^

2006-01-18 [Paz]: Alright, but first they must show some effort in some descisions and help build up ideas ;)

2006-01-18 [prowlie]: hokay^^ i think i'll wait a couple of weeks before deciding on the guards. we'll need some rules first though. after all, they'll have to get to know em really well!

2006-01-18 [Paz]: I posted two wikis for rules :)

2006-01-18 [prowlie]: awesome! i know... how about... once we've decided on a council, we can all decide on the rules, then we can post them and then pick the guards! how many programmers will we need? dunno why i put two, actually...o.O

2006-01-18 [Paz]: As many as possible, 2 are good for now as long as they want a lot of work. They're all up for the council to post rules and be revised :) 

2006-01-18 [prowlie]: okay^^ but who's ON the council? i deleted my list because obviously it's now your choice^^

2006-01-18 [Paz]: I'll add a couple patrons here :)

2006-01-18 [prowlie]: yay! only, neither of them have been active for 2 hours ¬_¬

2006-01-18 [nokaredes]: Hedda might want to be on the Council...after all, he'll have to be a member of whatever communities we create...